Fold to 3bet

[mager]

I'm confused about how PT3 address "fold to 3bet". As i understand, if UTG raise, UTG+1 3bet and i'm on the CO folding, by default, PT3 count it as "fold to 3bet" to me also. This make no sense and i think you should change it or at least point it out(i just found about it now when compared stats with a friend of mine who has HEM).
I see there is "Fold to PF 3bet When Raised" which is what normally "fold to pf 3bet" should mean. But on the popup it says "and it wasn't a steal". Does this means that if i'm on the CO/button/SB and it folded to me, I raise, button/SB/BB 3bet and i fold, it does not count it?

Thanks.

[zubs1aa]

i think you are on the right track OP.

I use a stat (dunno if i customed it or it's already in there) that just tells me whether someone folded to a 3bet when they were the original raiser, regardless of position. It works for me.

[WhiteRider]

I see there is "Fold to PF 3bet When Raised" which is what normally "fold to pf 3bet" should mean. But on the popup it says "and it wasn't a steal". Does this means that if i'm on the CO/button/SB and it folded to me, I raise, button/SB/BB 3bet and i fold, it does not count it?

I believe that is the case, yes, if you're looking at the stat that Kraada built. I think the idea was that you may be raising lighter from the stealing positions so more likely to fold to a 3-bet from there.
I think that there is another version of the stat in the "Get More" section which doesn't make that distinction.

[mager]

I see there is "Fold to PF 3bet When Raised" which is what normally "fold to pf 3bet" should mean. But on the popup it says "and it wasn't a steal". Does this means that if i'm on the CO/button/SB and it folded to me, I raise, button/SB/BB 3bet and i fold, it does not count it?

I believe that is the case, yes, if you're looking at the stat that Kraada built. I think the idea was that you may be raising lighter from the stealing positions so more likely to fold to a 3-bet from there.
I think that there is another version of the stat in the "Get More" section which doesn't make that distinction.

Ok so i need something to complete the picture of someone opening and folding to 3bet. What is the different between "Fold steal to blind reraise" and "Att to steal & fold"? The only different is the the later include CO open and Button 3bet?

Thanks.

[kraada]

"Att to steal & fold" is the percentage of the time that a player attempts to steal the blinds and then for some reason at some point in the hand folds. The fold need not occur preflop but it can occur anywhere in the hand.

[mager]

"Att to steal & fold" is the percentage of the time that a player attempts to steal the blinds and then for some reason at some point in the hand folds. The fold need not occur preflop but it can occur anywhere in the hand.

So no matter what combination of stats i use, "CO open, Button 3bet, CO fold" won't count as fold to 3bet?
I don't understand why this stat so complicated on PT3...

[kraada]

The reason that particular stat is complicated is because in the database "flg_blind_def_opp" (blind defense opportunity) is false for a player on the button (as it should be), so we cannot distinguish CO opens from opens in other positions. PT3 only stores the position of the last non-hero raiser preflop (in val_p_raise_aggressor_pos). So when the CO opens and the button 3bets and we're the button we know that the CO raised. If the CO opens, we 3-bet and the big blind 4-bets and the CO folds, we don't know that the CO ever raised (as now val_p_raise_aggressor_pos is 8 and not 0).

We do plan on improving functionality to allow these stats to be made, though I don't have a specific time frame for the improvements as of yet.

[zubs1aa]

The reason that particular stat is complicated is because in the database "flg_blind_def_opp" (blind defense opportunity) is false for a player on the button (as it should be), so we cannot distinguish CO opens from opens in other positions. PT3 only stores the position of the last non-hero raiser preflop (in val_p_raise_aggressor_pos). So when the CO opens and the button 3bets and we're the button we know that the CO raised. If the CO opens, we 3-bet and the big blind 4-bets and the CO folds, we don't know that the CO ever raised (as now val_p_raise_aggressor_pos is 8 and not 0).

We do plan on improving functionality to allow these stats to be made, though I don't have a specific time frame for the improvements as of yet.

THought this is wrong.

someone gave me the code in a post here somewhere on how to identify the position number of the raiser.

Heck, you even just posted this elsewhere:

Not by default but you could build one - if you add holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos = 0 to the copies of the columns used for raised bb steal att and raised sb steal att, then that will limit it to hands the steal came from the button. For the BB, it will work 100% of the time, for the SB though if the BB 4-bets cold and the button folds the hand will not be counted (and unfortunately there is nothing we can do about that particular instance for this stat).

can't he use that but change pos to be = 1 for the cutoff?

PLus isn't there a variable to flag the first raise? I KNow it's posted here somewhere

[kraada]

That value is the value of the last raiser who was not you. If the following action occurs: CO raises, BTN calls, BB 3-bets, all fold, val_p_raise_aggressor_pos is 1 for the BB's point of view, and 8 for the CO/BTN. From BTN's perspective you cannot tell that CO made the initial raise. You can tell that the BTN made two actions (call, then fold), but you don't know where the initial raise came from when looking at the hand through his eyes. For certain narrow situations you can use this to pick out everything you need but not for CO vs BTN spots given the propensity of the blinds to raise. The position of the first raiser is not stored anywhere else separately.

[zubs1aa]

kraada.... I Thought this thread gave the solution for this, or am I just not understanding some nuance:

https://www.pokertracker.com/forums/vie ... 95&start=0